Saulė Jonaitytė – Interview with Arno Loopman

The Universe Speaks to Those Who Live in Truth

Video interview with an Estonian astrologer; a Vaishnav, an expert of Eastern astrology; a keen traveller in Eastern countries ARGO LOOPMAN who talks about the meanings and higher callings of astrology in the modern world, the synthesis of Western and Eastern astrology; and Kali Yuga.

Interviewed by  SAULĖ JONAITYTĖ (ISAR GD for Lithuania).

 

Saulė Jonaitytė (S): I present one of the most interesting Estonian astrologers Arno Loopman, or Abhi, as friends call him. I would like to explain the audience why I invited you for an interview. Once upon a time, at a conference in Riga, Abhi made a great impression and left a strong influence on me. Then he introduced the topic of asteroids and said something very impressive: ‘If there are asteroids, why do we need planetary Astrology?’ It was shocking, I couldn’t accept it for a long time. However, after a lengthy reflection, I realized that he was absolutely right, but not everyone wanted to hear him. I’ve been waiting a long time to meet you. Such an opportunity has arisen on the ISAR platform, where others will also be interested to hear about Abhi’s discoveries and new projects.

Abhi, what‘s keeping you busy these days?

Abhi (A): Actually, I don’t remember  this impressive phrase. I think I’m convinced that asteroids are like spice in a soup. But the main thing, nevertheless, in the soup  is – potatoes, carrots, cabbage – these are the main fundamental things. Without them, the soup is not complete. Spice makes the soup more interesting. But to make a soup from spice alone would be unrealistic. The same can be said about asteroids. They sort of add something to the horoscope, but there are other fundamental things and they are planets. First, you need to evaluate what is most important, and  pay attention to detail – to the Arabic parts or Midpoints, to the asteroids and anything else you want.

At the moment, I’m trying to do some serious astrological research. I‘m exploring in different ways. I don’t make horoscopes for people, I don‘t make a living from this. I’m more of an investigator. I want to find out what works in astrology and what doesn‘t. There are many different theories, but not all of them are effective.

S.: I recently became the representative of ISAR to Lithuania. They have a strong statistics program. And I’ve done some statistics myself. However, their requirements are too strict. At least 50 astrograms are required. There is an important ethical issue. How can I do that, if my clients are ordinary people, especially since research always involves celebrities. For me, it goes against my ethics to say: ‚Show me your astrogram, I’ll use it for research.‘. I have not yet crossed this ethical boundary. Of course, you can take VIPs, celebrities. How do you tackle this problem with 50 astrograms? That is quite a figure.

A.: In  statistics 50, of course, is almost nothing. It’s very little.

S.:  In personal relationships – it‘s a lot!

A.: I would say we need at least 2 thousand astrograms to talk about serious statistics. The problem is you can’t always find so many thematic horoscopes. For instance, let’s take singers. Where do we find 2 thousand astrograms? Or Presidents – you can’t even find that many.

S.: Or astronauts to fly with Elon Musk. Imagine Musk giving you the task of selecting astronauts. Finding 2 thousand is impossible.

A.: There are over 2 thousand billionaires, but we won’t know their time of birth. In this sense, it‘s very difficult to collect astrological statistics. I have, of course, an Astrodatabank database. This program is no longer on sale, because its creator left our planet a long time ago. However, I once managed to buy it. It has a collection of over 30 thousand  various horoscopes. This is a serious enough product that can be used to work with statistics.

S.: You mentioned that you were doing research on the basis of statistical data. What topics interest you? Health, finance, career, profession? After all, astrology is becoming increasingly specialized in different topics.

A.: Health is a very interesting topic, but I don’t know medical astrology at all, I don’t do it, but maybe in the future? Recently, I‘ve been looking for astrological formulas that allow you to answer very simple questions. This is psychological Astrology. Is a person an optimist or a pessimist? Is he a creative person or not really? Introvert or extrovert? Unfortunately, it seems to me that astrologers are not quite capable of answering these questions. Not all astrologers are able to unequivocally determine whether a person is an extrovert or an introvert.

 

S.: Do you know about S.Shestopalov’s astroformulas? He’s an Aquarius too. And he does similar formulas, even textbooks about such subjects: death, marriage, extroverts. They are made according to similar canons, like the Arabic parts. I‘ve tried using them. But after all, a person changes, contact with another person brings something new through composites, through new solars. Formulas – this is the same as taking a nail and nailing the person to a wall. However, this is just my opinion. I’m sceptical about universal formulas. And that’s a step back too I think, towards psychology. And we’re forecasters, after all. People turn to us for answers – what‘s going to happen? What awaits us tomorrow? And how will the same extrovert feel tomorrow? Did you mention that you’re also developing new research projects?

A: I’m not just doing research. I support an astrological Asteroid Base online. I have a website horozcop.com too.

 

S.: Abhi, the listeners don‘t know yet that you are a Vaishnavist. You have travelled in the Easter countries for many years. I’m going to ask a direct question: Were you on a spiritual quest, or did you have some personal purpose? How much time did you spend in the East?

A.: Traveling in India, of course, there were quests. I lived in various ashrams, walked pilgrim paths in the Himalayas and meditated a lot. I’ve been traveling in Thailand for the last 6-7 years. But in this country, I was not so much looking for something, it was more like a vacation. I am a vegetarian, and Thailand is a paradise for vegetarians. I also visited other Eastern countries – Miyanmar, Laos, Cambodia. Cambodia has a lot of fun for Vaishnavs. There is a large Hindu ancient temple Ankor Wat. Now it belongs to Buddhists, but in the beginning it was founded as a Vaishnav shrine. On its walls you can see bas-reliefs depicting scenes from the Mahabharata.

 

S.: How did Vaishnavism come into your life? How would you explain that?

A.: I would say – by accident. I knew a man who was related to it, practiced a little, read Vaishnav books. He led me to this movement. He’s not doing that anymore, but I stayed. Vaishnavism made a very strong impression on me. Although I started in 1994, the enthusiasm has not faded, so far I am still interested in it. Why? These are the oldest texts on the planet, and I find a lot of interesting things in them, including astrology. The oldest work on astrology is undoubtedly Hora Shastra ( Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra).

 

S.: Where was it created?

A.: It was written in India (of course), 5 thousand years ago. But I‘d like to warn you right away that I don’t consider myself a Vedic astrologer, even though I’m interested in the Vedas. In my opinion, there is only one Astrology, with many methods. I don’t divide it into Western and Vedic. Although I‘m mainly engaged in the so-called Western astrology, I also use some techniques from Vedic Astrology. I think they are effective, they have what is missing in the Western world today.

 

S.: We live in the era of Aquarius. Here is the sign of Aquarius, which expresses synthesis. Synthesis of everything that leads to the future. Is it possible to synthesize classical Ptolemaic astrology and Indian, Vedic, Jyotish?

A.: Yes, fusion is possible.

 

Will you do that?

A.: I have no doubt that fusion is possible. There are different methods and they can all be used. All you need to do is find out which ones are applicable and which ones are not. After all, there are baubles written for this field from the ancient times too. This is difficult enough, because everything needs to be tested.

 

S.: When we talked at the conference, you said that when you came back from your Oriental travels, you would always bring a  heavy suitcase. As an artist, I vividly imagined a man dragging those suitcases, crammed with books. Most interesting to me is, what kind of books are they? What literature do you bring from those countries? By the way, on a piligrimage to Little Tibet, in Dharamsala, as usual, I decided to play with mysticism: come on, supreme power, give me the book I need in my spiritual path. I immediately met a woman at the monastery who explained what I had to do in life. I went to a bookstore in Mcleod Ganj, where the owner showed me new books and gave me two, one was ‚Tibetan dream technique‘. I immediately realized that these books were for me. What books do you bring from there?

A.: I don‘t bring back books each time. But from my first trip to India, I returned with 30 kg of books. All of them were astrological. Then I decided to buy almost all that was sold and find out what’s in them.

 

S:. Of all those you bought, which book made the biggest impact? We all know Western books anyway.

A.: The most important one I have already mentioned is Parashara Hora Shustra. I can show the English translation, with the original passages in Sanskrit.

 

S.: Do you know some Sanskrit?

A.: In India I attended Sanskrit courses for 1 semester. I can’t say I know Sanskrit, of course, I don’t. But I know a bit.

 

S.: Abhi, do you know that in recent years, when Uranus passed through Taurus, there has been a purposeful interest in the history of World Astrology? Various texts from Persian, ancient Greek are discovered and translated. Based on your knowledge, you could also translate something. Currently, most are interested in it. Even ISAR gave me the task to write about the history of Lithuanian Astrology. That’s going back to the 17th century. You can imagine as we have one of the oldest universities in Eastern Europe. The towers of its observatory were decorated with paintings of the 12 signs of the Zodiac. Also, we had a very interesting astronomer Martyn Pochobut, who translated astrological texts from ancient Greek. He formed a group, and one of his disciples in the 18th century compiled and published annual astrological calendars, with ephemerides. I mention this, because your historical knowledge could contribute to the common cause right now. Do you, as an Aquarius, not want to have anything to do with the community, and instead go your own way?

A.: I‘m not good at translation, I don’t know languages well. I’m studying what others have translated. This really makes sense, because there are many things in ancient texts that we don‘t know today that we‘ve forgotten. It could be said that I‘m engaged in the restoration of astrology. I‘ve already mentioned that there is a lot of information in the medium of astrologers that simply doesn‘t work in practice. Someone invented something, wrote a book about it, but in practice their theories don‘t work. There‘s a lot of such things. That’s why I care about finding out what works and what doesn’t.

 

S.: Great! This will be a great support for practicing astrologers. I consider myself a practitioner. For us, one little booklet about what works and what doesn’t is more valuable than manuscripts.

Is there a big difference between the methods and the level of knowledge you found in the jyoitish books and the popular Western textbooks like Marion March‘s “The Only Way to learn Astrology“? Do only philosophy, morality, position and principles differ – or the methods themselves?

A.: Some things from Indian astrology aren‘t used at all in Western astrology. Suppose there‘s astrological yoga, which could be called a combination. There‘s a small, but a very serious book “300 important combinations“. (https://www.amazon.com/Three-Hundred-Important-Combinations-Raman/dp/8120808509). Its author is Raman, one of the most famous Indian astrologers. There are many different yoga-combinations .What do they mean? For example, one of the important combinations is  Raja-Yoga.

 

S.: Yogas in astrology is a new thing for me. Is this a kind of formula or horoscope?

A.: No, this is not a full horoscope, it‘s more like separate details. In search of similarities with Western astrology known to us, I‘ll give an example. Here is a planet in its sign, for example, Venus in Taurus, and at the same time it is in an angular house. If there are both of these criteria, then it‘s called Yoga, a strong position.

 

S:.Is that an algorithm?

A: You could call it that. I noticed that yogas are very significant. Perhaps not all yogas, but most are important. Think of a combination: all the planets are between the Nodes Rahu and Ketu. I haven‘t studied all combinations, but most of them are extremely effective.

 

S:.Do you have any links with Indian astrologers? Do you exchange information with them?

A.: No, I don’t maintain any such relationships right now. When I traveled to India, I visited some famous  astrologers. But, frankly, they didn‘t impress me. There‘s a phenomenon: Indian astrology is incredibly strong, but Indian astrologers – not really…

 

S.: That‘s understandable. They also had communists. And they passed the contagion of communism, which robs everything.

A.: I once went to this big conference with a large hall, there was a crowd of so-called astrologers. They sat at the tables and looked busy, but all this was not serious. It even reached such lows  that it was enough to give some astrologer your phone number, and using that number he did readings. That’s what “astrology” was to them. By the way, in India, everything is called astrology – even palmistry. Thailand is very interesting in this regard. When I saw an astrologer or a future prophetess on the street (they often sit near the temples), I was surprised every time. They were wearing epaulets! Epaulets like cops! With stars on them! I don’t even know why, but there it is.

 

S.: These are cultural differences lost in translation. What would you say about such case: here comes a young astrologer who is trying to choose their path; Western or Indian astrology. I had an interesting mystical experience. When I came to astrology, something from above, maybe Saturn in Aquarius in Chaize pointed at me. During that period, many yoga studios and Ayurvedic centers were developing in our country. There were interesting people who really appealed to me. However, I had a vivid dream: a bus was supposed to go to India and I wanted to go there with new friends, but someone said to me – you have to go to Greece instead. And once I got on the bus, I went to Greece. Later I associated this with the classical astrology of Ptolemy, with my ex-incarnations. But that’s not the point. I was surprised that there was a divide in the dream, that there was no in between point. It sounded really weird. I‘m often approached by young people who want to study astrology in more depth, to enrich it with something. And they also have to make a choice: Indian or Western astrology. How do you rate that? How can a young astrologer plan their path?

A.: I‘ve already mentioned that I don’t divide Astrology. It is seamless, and there are many methods in it – Indian, Greek. However, if anyone has a different view, I‘m not against it. It‘s important that these methods can be combined and don‘t get confused. It‘s important to learn systemically, gradually, so that everything doesn‘t boil down to porridge.

 

S.: Perhaps Western astrology has more accessible literature? Maybe it’s worth starting with it, and then finding your own way? Another question, perhaps, personally relevant to me. This summer, I became interested in the Kali-Yuga theme. I found Indian scholar historian Bibhu Dev Mistra. I posted a study of his ancient texts on my website. He states that in 2023, the final period of 150 years of Kali-Yuga decay begins. I agree with that, because I see it from the events. Especially as in 2023, Pluto is transiting into Aquarius. What do you know about Kali-Yuga terms? Realistically, people are scared to live knowing that a period of energy decay is about to begin. After all, the only purpose and meaning can be to protect children so that they move towards the light of the future. I recently read an immensely mesmerizing novel ‚ Song  of Kali‘  by  an American science fiction writer Dan Simmons. Using artistic means, imagining Calcutta, he seemed to be giving guidance on how to pass through this difficult time in the modern world. Do you know something more hopeful about this?

A.: Kali-Yuga is a term from the ancient Vedas. It‘s mentioned that there are four Yugas that follow each other. When all four pass, everything starts again from the beginning. It is mentioned that Kali-Yuga lasts 4320 years and it began about 5 thousand years ago. There are people who claim that this number means days, not years. I think that’s wrong. There are descriptions of yugas. If we see what‘s happening now, it‘s clearly Kali-Yuga.

 

S.: Yes, no doubt. What will happen during the decay period is even scary to imagine.

A.: That’s interesting. It is written that these yugas can still be divided into smaller periods, the so-called sub-yugas. So, inside Kali-Yuga there’s also Satya Yuga, or the Golden Age. One ancient text describes the combinations of planets that mark the beginning of Satya-Yuga. This is a very simple description. It reads: when The Sun, Moon and Jupiter are in conjunction, not in any place, but in a particular sector of Zodiac. Of course, the question arises, where to look for it-in the tropical or Sidereal Zodiac? We know that in India, almost everyone uses the Sidereal Zodiac. I entered this data into the astroprogram ZET. Everyone knows it, you can look for similar combinations in it. I got a list of these dates when such combinations could take place. It’s not often, not once in a million years. I did it in the tropical and sidereal Zodiac to appreciate everything. I studied all the dates on the list and realized that the combination described was just a hint. In addition to it, there must be other, very important combinations of planets when an event of this magnitude occurs – a new era begins, more precisely, the era’s new subperiod. I’ve made horoscopes with all these dates. I noticed that in 2025, there will be one such day with many interesting aspects. It’s the 25th of June, 2025.

 

S.: Oh! That’s my birthday. I will start Satya Yuga with my solar.

A.: Look, this is a very interesting date. Even eight planets will be at the beginning of the sign, on 1-4 degrees. And one in the last degree of the sign. Maybe Uranus? There are aspects amongst all planets. There’s going to be a connection between Saturn and Neptune, a very interesting aspect because they‘re opposite planets. Saturn means reality, and Neptune – illusions. When they connect, it is difficult to distinguish between reality and illusion. I suggest you look at this chart. It seems to me, something very important is going to start that day.

 

S.: Do you associate this with the Satya Yuga sub-period?

A.: Yes. In part, there may be some speculation. The ancient text talks about Satya Yuga. And I’m sure it’s many thousands of years waiting for  Satya-Yuga.  However, if it can be interpreted that not only Satya Yuga itself, but also its subperiods begin with such combinations, then this is true. A tiny slot of Satya Yuga will begin inside Kali Yuga.

 

S.: It looks like when a cake is brought to prison… I‘m going to ask a question that I‘ve also asked Belarusian astrologer Jekaterina. What do you think is the role of astrologers in the modern world? Are we individual or do we have to work in groups?

A.: I’m going to tell you, organizing astrologers is the same as organizing cats. You can try it, but it‘s impossible. Dogs can be organized, but cats – no way…

 

S:  I agree completely. Even if we were to insist that they sing in a choir to someone else’s music…. You‘ve answered my other question about globalism in astrology. Abhi, how do you imagine the future of astrology? What are the directions of its development as a science?

A.: It can be seen that there is a great interest in ancient Greek texts, there are many new translations. I hope that artificial intelligence will be used in astrological research. The human brain has its limits. A simple example: for many years, a person has not been able to compete with a computer like in chess. Chess is a very simple game, with specific, clear rules. The computer will be able to analyze millions of subsequent chess moves with time. Humans don‘t have such abilities. By applying the same principle in astrological research, I think we‘ll find something. I do some programming myself, unprofessional. There‘s a plan to explore this artificial intelligence.

 

S.: You know, at the beginning of astrological work, I thought a lot about it – who needs some live mediator, “me with  personal emotions and projections“, when a person can calculate everything himself.  Still, I think it will lead to the Black Box. We already have software like Almagest, where the Black Box works. Here, I see those charts, but what about the person? When there is contact between your brain, fields, consciousness and – the other, the predictions are really the essential touch. There is a great deal of beauty in that when the astrologer becomes, to a certain extent, a medium in all that variety. On the other hand, I agree with you. Because the quantity and speed of information is so fast  that the human brain simply cannot predict with existing methods. I’m trying to compete with time when there’s an influx of customers. But I understand that it is impossible to go on like this, because the brain is limited, it‘s impossible to calculate everything so quickly. So I accept the idea that in this case, we turn to computer.

What‘s your take on the idea that astrology is accessible to the general public? I feel the trends, I support them. Say, a mom with a child. She stays at home, is a smart mom, say, a physicist. She can be versed in astrology and can make a horoscope for both herself and the child. We all know the basics of psychology, so will the masses come to the basics of astrology too? I meet astrologers from the older generation, who are fiercely opposed to this, they say: ordinary people won‘t become masters, it‘s profanation etc. How do you measure the spread of astrology knowledge amongst the masses?

A.: It’s a bit useful. If ordinary people know something about astrology, they can use it in the family circle. However, this will remain superficial. No one is going to go deeper.

 

S.: All mass culture is superficial.

A.: Yeah, that’s good, but that’s not all. Be that as it may, however, it‘s only a beginner’s stage .

 

S.: Let‘s touch on history again. Here‘s someone for whom the Vedas were written. This person had a certain level of consciousness, a matrix of relationship with the world. And now this person is very different. Do they fit the parameters, the theses of the ancient texts? After all, it‘s a completely different consciousness.

A.: Yes, that’s a very good question. A person who doesn‘t have a developed consciousness cannot do astrology perfectly. They can do something that will only impress incompetent people. But that‘s not the highest level. Not only consciousness, but also intellectual capacity differs. We‘ve talked a lot about computers. In the Vedas it says that there was a time when people remembered everything. There was no need to write anything down. What was said was retained in memory.

Swami Bhakivedanta, the founder of our movement, has also told this story. 100 years ago, at the end of the 19th century in Calcutta, on the banks of the Ganges, there was some conflict between two non-native Englishmen. Next to them, there was a simple poor man, washing dishes. He was called to court as a witness. The judge asked him what he had seen, how things had gone? He replied that he did not speak English, but he remembered what they said. He repeated, like a tape recorder, all the words he had heard in the English conversation. He didn‘t understand anything himself, but he remembered everything. The judge could see that he was an honest, simple man, so simple that he didn‘t even know how to lie. But his mental capacity was excellent and he reproduced everything. The judge took that as testimony.

There was a time when people’s memories were much better than they are now. This isn‘t just a fairy tale. The BBC showed a film about people who are considered to be ill, say autistic or Aspergers. The film showed what intellectual abilities they have. Here was one who opened a telephone book and could list all the numbers in sequence. This is happening now, with many examples. One such person was invited to get into a helicopter to fly over Rome. He flew for about 40 minutes. When he landed, he was given paper and pencil to draw what he had seen. It was the equivalent of a photograph. Everything matched, down to the smallest detail. Even when the experts thought he had made a mistake about perspective. When it was checked, it turned out they were wrong. He even drew all the windows and doors and corners perfectly, down to the last detail. That is his memory! Imagine that an astrologer has the ability to remember all the horoscopes he has ever seen.

 

S.: By the way, I have some of those skills. I‘m modest, I can‘t brag. I don’t remember the names of the people I met yesterday. I don’t remember very many things. But a chart that I once studied sticks in my mind. I have a website. I understand that Kali Yuga is a difficult time. So any person can ask me an important question there by providing their date of birth. I answer for free if the question seems important to me. But, you know how people are… If they got a free answer once, they want it again. They ask again just changing their names. But when I open their charts , I immediately remember everything. All the charts are in my memory base. I think that’s part of my vocation. It happens that clients get the times mixed up.  They come back a couple years later with a different time. I open their chart and I say – this is not the correct time, I didn’t see what you‘re showing. It’s strange that only charts are remembered, everything else isn‘t. I can even forget the names of relatives, where they live and how old they are.  I think that’s a feature of the new times. Consciousness is focused on a particular topic of interest. What you‘re interested in, what you dedicate yourself to, that’s where memory works well. And what‘s outside your interests, you can forget – how to boil milk and how to push the pedals. 

Back to the question. Here are the ancient methods, 2000 years old. How do we apply them to people of today? Come on, those degrees, especially the critical ones  in the Avesta school, all that negativity… When you‘re confronted with that, you realise that I couldn’t even voice it for people. The spirit of Time is different.

A.: No problem with the methods. But you asked a question about consciousness. Of course, today’s human consciousness is different from that of 5000 years ago. What‘s important here is that astrology is, after all, esoteric. Through astrology, through the charts, we‘re trying to find the Truth. We draw up a chart for a person and try to find out whether they‘re going to get rich, whether they‘ll die young, whether they‘ll have a lot of children, whether they‘ll be childless, how many marriages they‘ll have and so on. That‘s how we try to find out the Truth. Practice proves that astrologers are not very skilled in this art. Why is this so? The answer lies in consciousness. In order to see the Truth, in order not to be in gross illusion, Man himself must be truthful. Therein lies the whole trick.  If the Man is not truthful, he does not see the Truth. An astrologer can study and research a lot, but if the person is not truthful, he won‘t be able to see the Truth. It‘s a thing that is not talked about at all.

 

S.: You mentioned that astrologers are not organised like those cats. But serious, responsible astrologers inevitably have to deal with these issues. You can’t take these topics to a conference, you need a show. It‘s a matter of conscience. It is just that conscience is very uncomfortable.

A.: The question of justice is inseparable from the question of consciousness. One must develop their consciousness to the point where one speaks only the Truth and never lies. One won‘t compromise on the Truth, even if it will harm them in some way, even if it‘s inconvenient. This level of awareness is a fundamental principle for the practice of esotericism in general. Of course, it would also be good to purify one’s mind through meditation. After all, our mind can also be our worst enemy. People who have not trained their mind are, of course, slaves to their mind. The mind simply deceives them. So the question of consciousness is the most important. Moreover, there is another aspect to the matter of consciousness.  We have been doing astrology for many years and we‘re convinced that astrology works. There is no doubt about it. But why does it work? Where does it come from?  Maybe it‘s some kind of God behind the scenes organising everything? Is it the Universe organising everything? The Universe can also be seen as consciousness. It‘s more accurate to say that the Universe has consciousness. One has to realise that God, if He exists, doesn‘t come to this world to help people. He needs mediators. They transmit the word of God to people. And here‘s an important point. The universe, or the mind of the universe, does not speak through any human being. It requires qualification and a certain level of consciousness.  If there is such a consciousness, the Universe begins to speak through it. In that case, it doesn’t matter so much what astromethods you use, because the information will just reach you. Then it‘s not just a technical issue. It‘s more like extrasensory.

 

S.: This is where metaphysics begins. We have touched on some very important topics. I think that even not all of my listeners will understand what we‘re discussing here. But this is my daily moral imperative – what I say, what condition I am in personally, how to position myself in order to be a clean mediator.Do you have any contact with Estonian astrologers?

A.: Yes, we keep in touch.We have a FB group. There‘s an Astrologers’ Union, over 40 members, not too many. If something important happens in the world, we make a horoscope and see what happens there. There are many astrologers who are not members of the union. There‘s a lot more people who work in astrology. But not everybody communicates with each other. In Lithuania and Latvia, I think there are more people who work in astrology.

 

S.: Yes, we even have many associations. Are there any spublications, shows for astrologers, for their education?

A:  No, there are no publications. I myself once interviewed a few astrologers on a radio station. It’s in the archives, downloadable from the internet. Sometimes I advise people to listen to some interview. I‘ve tried doing some things on television, providing evidence that astrology works, but those attempts weren‘t successful. There are all kinds of forces and people in the society who oppose astrology, who say ‘It can’t work because it’s stupid’. I don‘t want to waste time on them.

By the way, I remembered how else one can explain the question of consciousness. A true astrologer is a servant of people. And there are also those who are in the business of astrology. They are completely different things. There‘s an astrological business. It‘s a way of generating income. That’s it. But if we look at what is said about astrology in the ancient Vedas, we will find a principle there: the astrologer did not ask people about money. He didn’t ask for money for his work at all. It‘s not a job, it‘s a service. The astrologer never priced their services. That‘d why anybody could turn to the astrologer. Both rich and poor. That was the ancient standard. It was free. This does not mean that astrologers starved or had to work other nights to earn money. Just because there was no price didn‘t mean they weren‘t paid anything. Everybody gave whatever they could. A poor man might give a kilo of rice, but a rich man might give 100 cows… This is an important principle: it’s up to you what you want to be – do you want to be in the astrological business or be a servant of the Universal Mind? The one through whom the Universe talks to people. This is a very important question.

 

S.: If you can’t bring the cows in now, money as a payment equivalent is still in the astrologer’s work. It seems to me that money shouldn‘t be the goal though. If a person has approached you, you have to give them an answer, and money is payment for the work, within reason.

 I‘m  going to ask a silly question. As astrologers we are often wrong. Many years go by, and suddenly my hair turns grey when I remember some things I said. As time passes, you realise that things were different then. How can we pay off the karma of our fatal mistakes? The mistakes on which people have based their life choices?

A.: You have to look at how psychologists work. Psychologists and psychotherapists often don’t give concrete answers. They simply someone to find the answer within themselves. That‘s an important point. If we give people specific answers or instructions to do one thing or another, sell the house, invest money here and there, the person is handling over responsibility to us. He doesn‘t take responsibility, someone else decides everything for him. That is also wrong. I don‘t know where the middle ground is, but probably somewhere between the two extremes, it seems.

I have noticed in my own life that there is Karma, one earns something. For someone  it‘s an accident, to someone else it‘s winning a lottery. All this is Karma. We can say that if he had gone to an astrologer before, he could have predicted the event. But he didn’t go and he didn’t benefit.  Here‘s a very important point: Karma cannot be removed.  There is no such thing as learning astrology, becoming a famous astrologer and avoiding all the problems of life.

Karma is inevitable. If a person has earned some nonsense, he may end up with an unqualified astrologer who will guarantee him all the problems. Another person, with a different Karma, may go to an astrologer who, though a beginner, though unqualified, will give him much more Karma. Even a beginner astrologer can “switch on” the mind of the Universe. It all depends on our Karma. We deserve what we have earned. It isn‘t the case that a super-civilized person goes to an astrologer and solves all problems. That doesn‘t happen.

 

S.:  I will ask one more question about astrologers and Karma. While collecting material on the history of Lithuanian astrology, I came across the following phenomenon.  We have very good, strong astrologers who have been practicing for a long time, one of them even published a magazine with translations of good classics. I called them all and found out that very strong figures, experienced and after years of hard work, had left the profession. As a professional, I value experience. Experience, as accumulated capital, is also employed at work, apart from intelligence, intuition. The reasons for everyone’s departure are very different and cannot be summarised. However, it has had a depressing effect on me. Why do you think people go into such a serious profession – after all, it’s science, it’s art, it’s ruining your eyesight and your posture in light night investigations, and suddenly it’s all being thrown away, shut down, gone. I find it hard to explain. You can leave an office where you‘re employed, but to leave with such a wealth of knowledge? Of course, we are under pressure from society, we are beyond official recognition. It has weighed on me a lot.  I found out about four colleagues: one went into commerce, one into psychotherapy, one into translation. And they want nothing to do with us. It’s a loss for the common cause. How do you explain that? The strong, 20-year veteran pioneers are leaving. I still can’t accept that.

A.: People are different. They come to astrology with different motives.  Those motives determine a lot of what happens later on – whether they will do astrology forever or not. I think the ones who come out are the ones who haven’t really got the hang of it, haven’t quite figured out how to deal with all that baggage. Yes, even in Australia there is one astrologer who left astrology and started attacking other astrologers.

 

S.: I know such people too, some Lithuanians. They deliberately  burned their entire astrological library.

A.: Wow, that’s strong!

 

S.: It’s probably the influence of Christianity. But the fact of burning books is there. And they argued that it’s a matter of time before I burn all my astro-books. Like savages…

A.: Yes, savages. But people are different. And among my friends there are strange things happening. Everything can be explained somehow.

 

S.: Were you born in Tallinn and do you live there now?

A.: Yes, I was born in Tallinn and still live there. A real Estonian.

 

S.: We’ve been talking for an hour and a half and people prefer shorter talks I guess. I‘d like to thank you for an interesting conversation. I heard a lot of thoughts that touched me deeply, and I‘ll think about them for a long time. I‘d like to wish you interesting books, discoveries, new authors, success in synthesising different approaches. I look forward to hearing from you about new books, research, new programmes. And don’t leave the profession under any circumstances!

A.: No, that will never happen to me. Wish I had more time to read these books…

 

S.: Well, you can read in the after life, where we‘ll have so much time, we‘ll not only read them, we‘ll make friends with the authors too. If you’re going to quit astrology, I’ll follow. To me, you‘re the benchmark of an astrologer who doesn‘t follow external trends, or political conjunctures.

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